Setting the stage for the Mystic Order of Defenders

So, Joe responded to my last post. Watch as the Mystic Order Of Defenders is revealed!!! (We've been plotting our own return of the Defenders for Marvel; you can follow along in previous entries here at this blog, which also flesh out who everyone listed is)

My take on things -

1) Nighthawk's intentions in reforming the team
I think nostalgia would be one of the driving forces. The Defenders were his friends and Kyle was arguably the heart of the team. As for not just turning over any information on the Six-Fingered Hand right over to the Avengers and letting them handle it - I think there might be a bit of pride going on there. Iron Man refused his offer to reform the Defenders once and put him together with a decidedly non-Defenders team in "the Last Defenders". I think out of anyone, Kyle would be one to reflect on the "non-Team" and realize that these people weren't just a loose group of super-heroes - they were his friends and it is time for a reunion of sorts.

Another reason for Nighthawk to eschew the Avengers - being an American-backed superteam, the Avengers could provoke an international incident on the other side of the border. The Defenders (the ones that aren't currently Avengers that is) are independent and can do whatever they want without involving the government.

Finally, perhaps Kyle and Patsy are just going to Mexico for a vacation in Cabo (Kyle's treat) and wierdness just follows them. When things get too big for them, they call in the others. I love starting a story from mundane origins and making them sprial out of control.

2) D-S has a propensity to carry the Vera Gemini part of the plot line.Gargoyle's origin tied directly into the Six Fingered Hand, who punished Isaac with that form. His knowledge is not quite the same extent as D-S's; Payne uses his knowledge of the organization to discover its resurgence.
I don't have the issue where they fight V.G., but, Kyle and Patsy could (at the least) recognize the name if they didn't encounter her before.
I believe that the Gargoyle would recognize the "feel" of the Six-Fingered Hand's demonic powers if he encountered them.
Devil-Slayer probably isn't quite as active killing demons as he might have in the past, focusing on his work at the sanitorium and developing his own goetic powers. However, if he found out the Harvesters or Vera Gemini's twin is out there (perhaps casting doubt in his mind, allowing the real Vera to escape), he'd get back in the thick of things with little hesitation.

3) Inserting a doppleganger into the Defenders line-up
Interesting thought. It might work if it's done well in the beginning when everyone is coming together. A faux-Valkyrie might be cool, but "less might be more" in the grand scheme of things. Having it happen without reason or just because wouldn't fly by me.

4) I knew a retiree who lived in TJ just to save money, and that's a possibility for bringing Isaac into the picture.
That is brilliant! I love the idea that Issac Christians is acting like...well...an old person should in his own way. I'm not sure he'd want to mope around in Christiansboro... or if even Christiansboro even fared very well during the US economic downturn. Perhaps it is even a ghost-town by now and Isaac has no place to go since the Six-Fingered Hand was defeated (yet another sub-plot)! Retiring on a meager salary could easily keep him out of the way in the first issue and just as easily help usher in the borderland plotline. It could also help show what people have been doing in the time after the Defenders.

5) What if a Harvester of Eyes cult agent of death or fortune disguises as Devil-Slayer?
I could see them using the same costume motif, but probably different colors. In a black and white video, they'd look awfully similar. I wouldn't mind seeing a Devil-Slayer vs. Devil-Slayer-Slayer battle where both are fighting with the full extent of their powers against each other amid two warring armies of summoned inner-demons.

As a plot point, if the Harvester of Eyes really does indeed harvest eyeballs (the eyes are the windows to the soul...), that would be enough to warrant Payne's attention enough to bring him out of seclusion (the last I heard on the Marvel site, he's helping mental patients at some sanitarium). OR... perhaps they take the fight to Devil-Slayer by attempting to assassinate him at the Sanitarium? Having trained Payne to be an assassin, it would make perfect sense for them to find someone else who is more willing to fill his shoes.

Perhaps there are other functions of the cult that were not fleshed out in the original story...

6) I do think it's safe to say Daiman Hellstrom is depicted as already on this case by the first story. But what if his father's not behind the Six Fingered Hand? Maybe....Dormammu?
I dunno... I like the idea of the Six-Fingered Hand as a main villain, not the puppet of a larger threat. It means that they're not just goons to be slapped around on the journey to "The Big Bad". If Daiman is already on the case, then there needs to be some good reason it that draws him in - that's just good storytelling. If he's not on the case, then his skills as Marvel's pre-eminent exorcist make him a reason for the Defenders to actively track down the Son of Satan and bring him into the fold once more.

7) cameos by Doom, Mordo, even Dr. Druid or another magic user, refusing alliances, would tie it into the MU.
I could see Brother Voodoo being a natural to take over the spot of Dr. Strange on the team. Perhaps in time he would be receptive of the offer, but just as easily he could refuse. I don't know if Nighthawk would offer membership to anyone staunchly on the side of evil/selfishness, but he would definitely try to sway someone who is on the fence - as I saw him do with Constrictor a few years back.

8) a subplot like Devil-Slayer trying to talk a young man out of joining a most satanic gang faction would give us a shorter story that could be resolved, if you like, a small victory or defeat along the way.
Perhaps. We do have a lot going on here and we're still working on the main story. We'd have to see how the chips are falling to see where it works in there.

9) I want to start up a subplot about human trafficking. I know the Defenders don't really fight regular crooks, but I'm sure we can run with that idea AND provide, say, a villain called the Coyote who provides the muscle for that effort.
I think that there would be a disproportionately large number of super-criminals south of the border that could prove to be difficult. Perhaps the Defenders would find themselves at a disadvantage and be forced to withdraw after taking down a few. Or they could get caught between the law and the criminals.

OTHER -
Clea - I wouldn't mind having her back on special occasions. Reading over those old Defenders comics though, the romantic fawning over Dr. Strange was a bit saccharine.

Sif - I don't know about bringing her on. For some odd reason, it doesn't feel right to me just substituting one Asgardian warrior chick with another Asgardian warrior chick. They're a bit too similar in composition on the surface. I like the idea of bringing in new blood though. There probably are a few unused really cool mystic female characters who might have brushed with the Defenders in the past. Finding them is a difficult proposition though... Maybe the forgotten Avengers semi-villan "Elf Queen" who kicked the Avengers' asses and disappeared after one issue into obscurity?

Anyway...back to work. Have fun.
---Joe


And my reply:

1) Someone wrote me a brilliant reply today that stated nostalgia is the great driving force in his life, and one that comes most naturally.

2) They did meet her and they'd know the name if it comes up in their investigation. The Harvester of Eyes cult name is one of those that would ring a bell over time! Agreed on Gargoyle. This is a new touch on D-S; there's his chance to help someone ordinary, too. Not too much screen time, just enough to establish a face and name for some of those suffering in the midst.

3) Oh, yeah, the doppleganger is there to learn what the Defenders know and hand them over to Vera Gemini at some critical junction.

4)Think we're in complete agreement!

5) This will just be a matter of logistics, but lots of good grist for the mill.

6) Particularly because (spoiler!) the Hand were revealed as agents of Satan, I think a hint of the Hand would send them to his door.

I don't mind a bit if the 6fh makes their own Bachmann-like run for demonic leadership! I was surprised by what JM did with them in #99 and am referring back to that with this supposition, if you haven't made it back to that story yet.

7) Since we are so character-rich, I was just thinking of these cameos as evidence that 6fh and Vera Gemini are trying to recruit/ manipulate/ neutralize existing magicians. They may not even have space to do much here! But if we find one of them onscreen for more than a couple of minutes, hey, they were meant to be there.

8) Think I've covered this now; just wanted to establish, "that's funny, the gangs are getting into a lot of Satanism as always, but ...NO!!! Not them!! I thought their power was broken!" sort of thing.

9) mm-hmm. And sometimes the police are on the side of the gangs, to top it all off. I wonder
what existing villains we have down there? The trafficking thing is a particular crime of choice I want to discuss "coyotes" are the men who handle that business, often transferring their "clients" to places for sex trade and worse.


Hope you are enjoying our exchange, this peek behind the curtain of Creative endeavors.